Most old safes carry their own birth certificate. It’s just spread across the maker’s plate, the lock, the body and a few stamped numbers. Here’s how to read those clues, which ones you can trust, and where the surviving records are.
1819
first year of Chubb’s surviving lock registers
1936
last year Chubb serial-numbered its locks
1857–1954
Milner lock and key registers held in a London archive
1917
London postal districts get numbers, a handy cut-off
Key takeaways
- No single clue dates a safe on its own. Combine the maker’s name, the address, the lock, the construction and any numbers, and look for the date range where they overlap.
- The most precise clue is a number that can be checked against surviving records: Chubb lock numbers up to 1936, and Milner numbers against dated examples.
- “Ltd” on a plate, a numbered London district such as “E.C.1”, a telephone number or a ZIP code each set an earliest possible date.
- Exhibition medals and “Established” dates tell you about the firm, not the safe: the safe is that year or later.
- Never drill, force or dismantle a lock to look for numbers. Photograph what you can see and ask a qualified safe engineer about the rest.
In This Article
How old is my safe? Six clues, most reliable first
The good news first: you can usually date an old safe to within a few decades from the outside alone, and sometimes to the year. Grab a notebook, work through these clues and write down what each one allows. The list runs from the most reliable to the least:
- A serial or lock number that can be checked. Chubb’s lock registers run from 1819 to 1936, and the Chubb Archive will look up a number on request.1 For Milner and a few others, collectors have built up dated reference points.
- The maker’s name and its legal form. “& Son”, “Ltd”, a merged name such as Chatwood-Milner or Herring-Hall-Marvin: each matches a known period in the firm’s life.
- The address. Works names, street numbers, postal districts, telephone numbers and cable addresses changed over time and are well recorded in directories.
- The lock. Key or dial, the lock maker’s name and the lock’s features narrow the period, though locks were sometimes replaced.
- Construction and finish. Square or bent corners, bands, bolts and paint follow fashions and catalogue changes, but they give broad ranges, not years.
- Labels, medals and paperwork. An original dated invoice is excellent evidence. Medals, “Established” dates and family stories only give an earliest date or a lead to check.
The sections below take the clues in the order you meet them on the safe, starting with the plate on the door. For the history of individual firms, see our maker entries for Milner safes and the 212 badge, Chubb safes and their lock numbers and John Tann’s Reliance safes.
Dating cut-offs at a glance
These rules work whoever made your safe. Each one gives an earliest possible date, so if your safe shows several of them, it’s at least as late as the latest one.
| “Ltd” or “Limited” (Britain) | 1855 at the earliest; check the maker’s own incorporation year below |
| London district without a number (“London, E.C.”) | 1858 or later |
| London district with a number (“E.C.1”, “E.C.4”) | 1917 or later |
| Any telephone number | After August 1879, when Britain’s first public exchange opened in London |
| US postal zone (“Canton 2, Ohio”) | May 1943 or later |
| ZIP code or two-letter state (“OH”) | July and October 1963 or later |
| Milner number with a letter prefix | 1889 or later |
| Chubb lock serial number | Datable from the registers up to 1936; no serial suggests later |
| Time lock on the door | Almost always 1874 or later |
| Exhibition medal on a plate or label | The year of the medal or later, never earlier |
Sources for each rule are given in the sections that follow.
Clue 1: the maker’s name and wording on the plate
Start with the exact wording of the maker’s name, letter by letter, because the small words matter. Firms changed their names when sons joined, partners left, companies were incorporated or businesses merged, and those dates are usually well documented.
The most useful single word on a British plate is “Limited”. The Limited Liability Act of 1855 first let ordinary companies limit their members’ liability, on condition that “Limited” was the last word of the company’s name.2 So a plate ending “Ltd” cannot be older than 1855, and in practice it dates from after that particular maker’s incorporation, which was often decades later.
The plate shown here reads “Hobbs, Hart & Co”, with no “Ltd”. Hobbs, Hart & Co. took that name after J. M. Hart bought the business in 1860 and was at 76 Cheapside by 1864; it became a limited company in 1887.34 So before we’ve looked at anything else, this strongroom door already sits between the 1860s and 1887.
Here are the name changes we’ve been able to confirm for the makers whose safes owners ask about most often:
| “Milner & Son” / “Thos. Milner & Son” | Milner, before 18745 |
| “Milners’ Safe Co. Ltd” | Milner, incorporated 31 July 1874 or later5 |
| “Chatwood-Milner” | 1956–1971, owned by Chubb from 19586 |
| “Chubb & Son” | Chubb, before 1882 |
| “Chubb & Son’s Lock & Safe Co. Ltd” | Registered 14 December 1882 or later7 |
| Royal arms with “to the Queen” | Chubb, before 19018 |
| “Hobbs & Co.” / “Hobbs, Ashley & Co.” | 1852 / by 1855, at 97 Cheapside3 |
| “Hobbs, Hart & Co.” / “… Ltd” | From about 1860 / from 18874 |
| “John Tann” / “John Tann Ltd” | From 1845 / from 19129 |
| “Chatwood & Dawes” | 1861 or earlier: the partnership was dissolved in 186110 |
| “Chatwood’s Patent Safe & Lock Co.” | 1864–1909 |
| “Chatwood Safe Co. Ltd” | 1909 or later; “Shrewsbury” on the plate, 1925 or later11 |
| “Ratner Safe Co. Ltd” | Founded 1889, limited company from 189612 |
| “Hall’s Safe & Lock Co.”, Cincinnati | 1867–1892 |
| “Hall’s Safe Co.” | A different firm, set up by Hall’s sons in September 189613 |
| “Herring-Hall-Marvin” | 1892 or later; bought by Diebold in 1959 |
| “Diebold Safe & Lock Co.” | 1876–1943; “Diebold, Inc.” from 194314 |
Names aren’t always tidy. After Edward Tann died in 1862, the family traded for a while as “late E. Tann & Sons”, even though John Tann had run the business since 1845.9 Look-alike names matter too: “R. Tann’s Defiance” safes came from a separate, cheaper Tann firm, and the Supreme Court case of 1908 between Herring-Hall-Marvin and the Hall brothers was fought precisely over buyers confusing “Hall’s Safe Company” with the original Hall’s Safe & Lock.13
Clue 2: addresses, postal districts, telephone and cable details
Next, look for an address. Many plates, escutcheons and lock cases give a town, and the bigger makers added a London showroom. Each maker’s addresses can be matched to directories: Chubb’s head office was at 57 St Paul’s Churchyard until 1877 and at 128 Queen Victoria Street from 1877 to 1941,15 Tann’s City office moved from 11 to 117 Newgate Street in 1912,9 and “Phoenix Safe Works” on a Milner plate means 1853 or later.5 Our maker entries have the full address tables.
Postal districts
London’s postal districts (E.C., W.C., N., S.E. and so on) were introduced in 1857 and completed on 1 January 1858. In 1917, as a wartime measure, each district was divided into numbered sub-districts, so “E.C.” became “E.C.1”, “E.C.4” and so on.16 Milner’s directory entries show the change neatly: “28 Finsbury Pavement, London, EC” in 1914, “12–13 Newgate Street, London, EC1” in 1929.5 Old plate patterns could stay in use for a while, though, so treat the number as a strong hint rather than proof.
Telephone and cables
Britain’s first public telephone exchange opened at 36 Coleman Street, London, in August 1879.17 You’re more likely to find a telephone number or cable address on a label, receipt or catalogue than on the plate itself. Milner’s were “Telephone: City 1195-96” and “Cables: Holdfast, London” in 1929, and “Central 0041-5” by 1947; Chubb’s 1947 number was “Museum 5822”.57
American safes: cities, zones and ZIP codes
American plates and labels give the city. Diebold started in Cincinnati in 1859 and moved to Canton, Ohio, in 1872, so a Diebold plate that names Cincinnati is an early one.14 In May 1943 the Post Office Department introduced zone numbers in 124 large cities, written between city and state (“Birmingham 7, Alabama”).18 The five-digit ZIP code followed on 1 July 1963, and today’s two-letter state abbreviations in October 1963.19
Clue 3: the lock and the lock maker’s marks
You can learn a lot about a lock without opening it. Look at the keyhole, the key if you have it, and any name or number on the escutcheon, the lock cap or the key’s bow. Our history of safe lock mechanisms explains how each type works.
Lever lock
A stepped key
Most 19th-century British safes use lever locks. “Detector” on a plate usually means a Chubb-type lever lock, the design Jeremiah Chubb patented in 1818.20
Bramah
A small tubular key
A slotted tube of a key means a Bramah-type slider lock. Bramah patented the design in 1784, so on its own it gives only an earliest date.20
Lock makers’ marks
- Thos. Turner & Co., Wolverhampton. Made the six-lever detector locks on Milner’s early chests, the 1840s and early 1850s.22
- Hobbs “Protector”. Fitted to many Milner safes from the early 1850s until about 1871, when Milner began making its own locks. Hobbs’s firm was at 97 Cheapside in the 1850s and 76 Cheapside by 1864.223
- Chubb. A numbered Chubb lock can be dated from the registers (see Clue 5). After A. C. Hobbs picked a Chubb lock in 1851, Chubb fitted a rotating barrel and curtain at the keyhole of its detector locks from then on, although a few earlier Chubb locks already had one;2324 our article on the Chubb detector lock has the details.
- Time locks. William Rutherford of Jedburgh patented a clockwork time lock in 1831,20 but they spread only after James Sargent’s lock was first fitted to a bank safe in May 1874.25 A time lock almost always means 1874 or later, and its own plate may carry patent dates.
Remember that locks wear out and get replaced. A lock gives you the date of the lock, and the safe is usually the same age or slightly older. If the key is lost, a specialist safe engineer can usually make a new one without damaging the safe; don’t drill or force it.
Clue 4: construction, bolts and paint
Every time a new kind of attack appeared, makers changed how they built their safes, and the catalogues recorded the changes. Don’t expect a year from this clue: it gives ranges, and it works best once you know the maker. The details below are from Milner and Chatwood catalogues summarised by the safe engineer behind safeman.org.uk.22
Body
Square or bent corners
Early bodies are flat iron plates joined at square corners. Bent corners came later: Milner’s List 2 had a four-corner bent body by 1902, and Ratner perfected bending all twelve corners from solid plate in 1900.2212
Paint and decoration
Paint is the weakest construction clue, because most old safes have been repainted, often several times. Collectors who have stripped Milner safes report original dark green, maroon or black under later coats, and one forum member suggests the colour once indicated the safe’s grade.28 If you find original paint, photograph it before doing anything else.
Many American safes of the later 19th century carry painted flowers, scenes or gilt lines, like the 1878 engraving here. In Cincinnati, the Hall safe company employed the young R. F. Outcault, later a pioneer of the newspaper comic strip, to paint country scenes on its safes after he finished his studies in 1881.2930 Original decoration is worth more than any later refinish, so clean it gently or leave it alone.
Clue 5: serial numbers, and which makers’ records survive
Most owners hope for an online lookup where they can type in the number. For most makers there isn’t one, but records survive in more places than you might think. Our safe serial number lookup lists every maker we have researched, where its records are and how to ask for a search. First, though, you need to find the number. Look on the key’s bow, the lock cap, the door edge, the top bolt, the front of the body above the door and near the hinge, and clean gently, because numbers are easily lost under paint.2831
Chubb: registers from 1819 to 1936
Chubb stamped a serial number on every lock and recorded it in registers that survive from 1819. Numbering stopped after 1936, so a Chubb lock with no number is probably later.32 The Chubb Archive publishes selected register entries online and its curator will look up a number for you.1 The original lock and safe number registers and order books are at The London Archives (formerly London Metropolitan Archives), reference CLC/B/002, which describes them as “of particular value for dating locks and safes”. Many head-office records were lost when Queen Victoria Street was bombed in 1941.33 A sample of the number sequence is in our Chubb entry.
Milner: no online list, but dated reference points
Milner published no register, but its “lock and key registers” for 1857 to 1954 are among the records at The London Archives, along with a day book and sale ledgers.33 In the meantime, collectors on the antique-locks.com forum have filled part of the gap by dating many Milners. On Milner safes the number on the key usually matches the safe’s own serial,3426 and from 1889 Milner prefixed numbers with letters, “A” for 1889, “B” for 1890 and so on.28
| 90447 | 26 May 1864, written on the original wood packing inside the door35 |
| 121000–163703 | 1871–187728 |
| 180281 | 1881–1882 |
| A prefix | 1889 |
| K1839 | Early 1899, from Peter Gunn’s list of Milner numbers34 |
| N6128 | 190235 |
| AD606 | 1918, a year in which only 625 Milner safes were made26 |
These dated examples fit a simple pattern: one letter per year from A in 1889, which would bring Z to 1914 and the double letters AA to AD to 1915–1918. That’s our reading of the examples, not a rule Milner ever published, so check your number against several clues. Our Milner entry also covers plate addresses and lock changes.
Tann, Chatwood, Hobbs Hart and the North American makers
- John Tann. The serial is often stamped on the top moving bolt, visible on the door edge. A number cast into the middle of the inside of the door is usually a casting number, not a serial. Tann’s own records are reported lost, but collectors have dated many numbers.31
- Chatwood and Hobbs Hart. Chatwood’s lock and safe registers and progress books (1864–1956), Chatwood-Milner’s order books (1955–1971) and Hobbs Hart’s lock and safe order books survive in the same London Archives collection.33
- Mosler, Diebold, Herring-Hall-Marvin and other American makers. Mosler is the exception: the company published the first serial number of each year from 1886, explained in our entry on Mosler safes.36 We have not found a published register for Diebold, Herring-Hall-Marvin or the others, such as York, Meilink, Schwab and the Detroit Safe Co.; our entries on them explain the dating clues that do exist. Date these safes from the company name and city (Clues 1 and 2), patent dates on the lock or plate, and the lock type.
- J. & J. Taylor of Toronto. No Taylor register has been published either. Our entry on J. & J. Taylor safes dates them from the Toronto address, “Limited” on the plate (1912 or later) and the later name Chubb-Mosler and Taylor (1960 or later).
Not every stamped number is a serial, either. On one Milner, the stampings on the edge of the body turned out to be the body maker’s mark and the safe’s weight in hundredweights, quarters and pounds.26
Clue 6: paper labels, exhibition medals and paperwork
Paper labels inside the door, medals cast into plates and family paperwork are the clues owners notice first, and the ones most often misread.
Why an 1851 medal does not date a safe
Milner, Chubb, Tann and the American maker Herring all won Prize Medals in the lock and safe class at the Great Exhibition of 1851.37 Medals were something to advertise, and makers collected them at exhibition after exhibition; Chubb, for example, won a silver medal at Antwerp in 1894.7 So a medal tells you the year of the award, and the safe was made that year or later. A label listing several exhibitions is no older than the most recent one on it.
The same applies to “Established” dates. Robert Tann’s sales token proudly says “Established 1837”,38 and an advert of about 1880 claimed John Tann was making safes “before the Battle of Trafalgar”.9 Both describe the firm, not the safe in front of you.
Did you know?
One New Zealand couple restoring Milner No. 90447 found the original wooden packing in the door signed by a workman, “I Cropper”, and dated 26 May 1864: about twelve years earlier than they had guessed.35 Hidden dates like this do turn up, usually when a safe engineer services the lock.
Receipts, provenance and family stories
If you have an original invoice, delivery note or insurance schedule naming the safe, you’re in luck. It’s the best evidence of all, because it records a date directly. Building records can help with fitted strongroom doors, which usually date from the construction or refit of the building. If you know who first bought the safe, a bank or a firm for example, the makers’ surviving order books and sale ledgers at The London Archives may record the order.33
Family stories are worth writing down, but treat them as leads to check rather than facts. “Grandfather bought it new in 1900” often turns out to mean he bought it second-hand, and safes were moved and resold for generations.
Worked example: dating a Milner safe step by step
Here’s how the clues came together for a real Milner discussed on the antique-locks.com forum in 2017, with the safe’s details as its owner reported them.26
- The name. A Milner with lettered numbers was made by Milners’ Safe Co. Ltd, so 1874 or later.5
- The number. The original key was stamped “AD 606” and the body “D 606”. A letter prefix means 1889 or later, and a double letter puts it after the single letters ran out.28
- The records. The author of safeman.org.uk dated AD606 to 1918, noting that only 625 Milner safes were made that year, the last of the First World War.
- The construction. Round bolts, a four-corner bent body and a lockcase of riveted T-bars match Milner’s List 3 “Improved Patent” of the 1915 catalogue: not before 1915.
- The red herring. The stampings on the edge of the body were the body maker’s mark and the weight, 7 cwt 1 qr 2 lb, about 370 kg: useful for the removal firm, irrelevant to the date.
Result: number, construction and records all agree on 1918, which is about as neat as safe dating gets. Had they disagreed, the safe would deserve a closer look for replaced parts.
Common dating mistakes
Every old safe has a serial number you can look up online.
Only two makers can be checked: Mosler published the first serial of each year, and the Chubb Archive will look up a Chubb lock number. Other makers’ records are lost, or held in archives rather than online. See our serial number lookup.
A medal of 1851 on the label means the safe was made in 1851.
It shows when the maker won the medal. The safe is from that year or later.
The number cast inside the door is the serial number.
On Tann safes it is usually a casting number; the serial is on the top bolt.
The lock’s date is the safe’s date.
Locks were sometimes replaced, so check the lock against the plate and the body.
Your safe-dating checklist
Print this, work round the safe with a torch and a phone camera, and fill in what you find. Photograph each item straight on, in good light. Then tick what you found in our free How old is my safe? tool, which turns the clues into a date range and shows the source for each step.
| 1. Maker’s name | Exact wording, including “& Son”, “Ltd”, “Patent” and any royal arms |
| 2. Address | Town, works name, street number, postal district or zone, telephone or cable address |
| 3. Numbers | On the key’s bow, lock cap, door edge, top bolt, front above the door and near the hinge |
| 4. Lock | Key or dial; key shape; any lock maker’s name, “Detector”, patent dates or time lock |
| 5. Body | Square or bent corners, external bands, hinge type, bolt shape, approximate size |
| 6. Finish | Original paint colour, lining or decoration under later coats |
| 7. Labels and medals | Paper labels inside the door, medals, “Established” dates, grade or “List” plates |
| 8. Paperwork | Invoices, insurance schedules, building records, family history (who, when, where) |
| Your date range | Write the earliest and latest date each clue allows; your answer is where they overlap |
Need help dating your safe?
If the clues don’t agree, or you can’t read the plate, send us photos of your safe’s plate, lock and serial number. We’ll tell you what we can about its maker and age, and add confirmed examples to our reference tables. We don’t give valuations.
Frequently asked questions
How do I find out how old my safe is?
Write down the maker’s name, the address, the lock and any numbers, then compare each with the dates in this guide. Where all the clues overlap, that’s your safe’s likely age.
How old is my Milners safe?
“Milner & Son” means before 1874 and “Milners’ Safe Co. Ltd” 1874 or later. A number with a letter prefix means 1889 or later; compare it with the dated examples in the Milner table above.
Is there a Milner or Chubb safe serial number lookup?
For Chubb, yes: the Chubb Archive will look up lock numbers from its registers, which run to 1936. For Milner there is no online lookup, but the lock and key registers for 1857–1954 survive at The London Archives.
Where is the serial number on an old safe?
Check the key’s bow, the lock cap, the door edge and top bolt, the front of the body above the door and the area near the hinge. Paint often hides it, so clean gently.
Can I date a Diebold or Herring-Hall-Marvin safe by its serial number?
We don’t know of a published register for either. Use the company name and city on the plate (for example “Herring-Hall-Marvin” means 1892 or later) and any patent dates on the lock.
Does an exhibition medal on my safe show when it was made?
No. It shows when the maker won the medal. The safe was made that year or later, often decades later.
Sources:
- The Chubb Archive, “Registers” and the online lock registers 1819–1936. ↩︎
- Limited Liability Act 1855 (18 & 19 Vict. c. 133), s. I: “The Word ‘Limited’ shall be the last Word of the Name of the Company”, text via vLex; for its scope (the first general limited liability for companies in England, Wales and Ireland) see Wikipedia, “Limited Liability Act 1855”. ↩︎
- The Chubb Archive, “The Aubin Trophy” (history of Hobbs & Co., Hobbs, Ashley & Co. and Hobbs, Hart & Co.). ↩︎
- Grace’s Guide, “Hobbs, Hart and Co” (76 Cheapside; registered as a limited company on 8 July 1887). ↩︎
- Grace’s Guide, “Milners Safe Co” (incorporation 31 July 1874; London addresses, telephone and cable details from the 1914, 1929 and 1947 directories). ↩︎
- The Chubb Archive, “Chatwood-Milner”. ↩︎
- Grace’s Guide, “Chubb and Son” (company registered 14 December 1882; Antwerp Exhibition 1894; 1947 directory entry). ↩︎
- The Chubb Archive, “Chubb 1818–1990s”. ↩︎
- safeman.org.uk, “Edward Tann & Sons: the story of Britain’s first safemaker”. ↩︎
- Grace’s Guide, “Chatwood and Dawes”, quoting the London Gazette, 17 September 1861. ↩︎
- Grace’s Guide, “Chatwood Safe Co”. ↩︎
- Grace’s Guide, “Ratner Safe Co”. ↩︎
- Herring-Hall-Marvin Safe Co. v. Hall’s Safe Co., 208 U.S. 554 (decided 24 February 1908), via Cornell Legal Information Institute. ↩︎
- Martha Schoolman, “Diebold, Incorporated”, International Directory of Company Histories, via Encyclopedia.com. ↩︎
- The Chubb Archive, “Early sales, offices, Chubb Group, 1980s and on”. ↩︎
- Wikipedia, “London postal district”, citing the British Postal Museum & Archive and the Post Office notice of 1 March 1917. ↩︎
- BT Archives, “Private and municipal telephone companies”, information booklet TPA/2/2 (2008). ↩︎
- United States Postal Service, “Mount Vernon Post Office to (Post) Mark Historic ZIP Code Day” (16 May 2014). ↩︎
- United States Postal Service, “State abbreviations” (postal history). ↩︎
- Charles Tomlinson (ed.), Rudimentary Treatise on the Construction of Locks, from the papers of A. C. Hobbs (1853), chapters on Bramah’s lock, Chubb’s locks and the time lock of Rutherford, via Project Gutenberg. ↩︎
- US Patent 3,312, “Combination safety-lock for doors”, 20 October 1843, via Google Patents. ↩︎
- safeman.org.uk, “Safe scrapbook” (sections “Milner’s safes from 1845 to 1919: an aid to dating and identification” and “Chatwood safes from 1861 to 1939”). ↩︎
- The Chubb Archive, “The detector mechanism”. ↩︎
- The Chubb Archive, Lock Register 1841–1850, lock No. 137850 (5 December 1843). ↩︎
- Obituaries of James Sargent, Democrat and Chronicle and Union and Advertiser, Rochester, January 1910, transcription (PDF). ↩︎
- antique-locks.com forum, “Information about Milner safe” (replies by safeman, Huw_Eastwood and Chubby, November 2017). ↩︎
- safeman.org.uk, “Modern times”. ↩︎
- antique-locks.com forum, “Milner Safe 212” (replies by Huntlocks and Ian_D_Lewis, 2006; Russell_Stoner and Huw_Eastwood, 2015). ↩︎
- Kevin Grace, “The bizarre valentine postcards of R. F. Outcault”, University of Cincinnati Libraries (14 February 2019). ↩︎
- The Henry Ford, “Commercializing the comics: the contributions of Richard Outcault”. ↩︎
- antique-locks.com forum, “Accidental collector chasing info” (reply by safeman, 25 June 2016). ↩︎
- The Chubb Archive, “Post 1936 locks”. ↩︎
- AIM25 / The London Archives, “Chubb and Son Limited, locksmiths and safe manufacturers”, ref. CLC/B/002 (includes records of Hobbs Hart, Chatwood, Chatwood-Milner and Milner’s Safe Co.). ↩︎
- antique-locks.com forum, “Milner 212 safe” (reply by Peter Gunn of the Chubb Archive, 4 December 2008). ↩︎
- antique-locks.com forum, “Safe: Thomas Perry & Son” (posts on two Milner safes, February and March 2007). ↩︎
- Mosler Inc., “Safe serial numbers cross referenced to manufacturing dates”, mosler.com, ©1999 (archived 10 October 2000). ↩︎
- Reports by the Juries on the Subjects in the Thirty Classes into which the Exhibition was Divided (London, 1852), Class XXII, list of Prize Medals, via Internet Archive. ↩︎
- Hackney Museum, token of R. Tann’s Defiance Safe & Lock Works, object 1991.628. ↩︎
